I had a great conversation this week with Dev Patnaik, author of Wired to Care and founder of a great firm, Jump Associates, which helps innovative companies like Nike and Target get even more innovative.
I asked for his advice on what marketing and sales folks should do TODAY to become more successful. If empathy is the solution, as Dev proposes, whose moccasins do you need to walk in?
Here’s what he said:
“The first thing they could do is just get outside. It doesn’t matter if they work in aircraft engines, or detergents, or for a grocery store chain. Every single person out there is getting a paycheck from someone out there in the world. That person is shopping in our stores, that person is buying our products – but they’re living in their homes and they’re spending their time in places that matter to them.
So the first thing you could do is get outside of your building. Skip that meeting, leave that conference room, and go spend some time hanging out in the real world. My friend John Morioka, who’s a senior exec at Target, is one of the best examples of this. When he’s trying to think about what he wants to do next in his business, he’ll get someone from one of his vendor companies to meet with him. But rather than spending time in a conference room, he says, ‘I’ll meet you in a grocery store.’ And they’ll have a conversation while they’re walking the aisles, and they’ll see things and know things that the rest of us would have to read about to know what was going on.”
Great advice from a great guy! Wired to Care should be required reading for leaders who wants to help their team, as Dev put it, “make 10,000 better decisions.”
What’s your advice – one thing somebody could do TODAY to improve their sales or marketing skills or strategy?
Send a trackback!Great question! (What one thing could you do today ...?) As a sole proprietor who works at home, I especially like the comments about getting out into the world – which is why I quoted several of you in my Sunday biz@home column. [http://www.capecodonline.com] My thanks to all for sharing your thoughtful words. For me, getting outside is about getting outside my bubble in order to make new connections and stimulate creative insights. Thanks again everyone!
Nike got it right when they coined "Just do it!" I have an editorial responsibility for one of my clients (community newspapers). I write, plus supervise a team of freelance story writers. I make it a point to meet with them one-on-one every couple of months. Solid relationships have resulted in keeping the team intact for the 3 years I've been doing this. it's also important to be generous with professional time for good causes...like CenttralPennsylvaniaSupportsTheTroops.com....a Sports Memorabilia Aution that has raised over $100,000 to fight cancer locally the past 10 years...and AFCA ..a charity that raises funds to provide life saving medication for children with AIDS in Africa. It's never about the money...but always about the passion for the work and the point of view on the other side of the table. Jack Cantwell, SkyLimit Marketing, Lebanon, Pa
Pick up the phone and find out where some of your best clients hang out after work and show up there. Most likely it will be a bar or a restaurant with lots of other people you don't know who are friends with your client, and they probably do the same kind of work. Congratulations, you have entered the space of business leisure. If you relax, don't drink anything but water, remain authentic and have a few good laughs, your client will introduce you to her friends, and if you are good, you will probably walk out of there with a few warm leads. And if you are really good and give value first, you will turn those leads into sales. Beats the hell out of cold calling and unlike cold calling, it's fun! DO IT TODAY
You're right! It works internationally too. I got more accomplished in Karaoke bars with my clients in Japan for 5 years than I ever did at the office. Relax, remove the mask, and get to the heart of the matter. Jack Cantwell, SkyLimit Marketing, Lebanon, Pa
What an important topic. Also important to bring your camera to document some ideas, what the competitor, the stores are doing. When you prepare a presentation to somebody "closed" in the office helps a lot.
Talk to people. Anyone. Everyone. Have a conversation with the lady who cleans your office. Open up and share with the colleague you've never had much in common with. Or talk to the barista. Sometimes I like to wander into Borders and go to a shelf I don't normally browse and I end up with amazing discoveries, book-wise. It's all about getting out of one's everyday (boring) routine/route and taking the longer road, or doing something unexpected. A good stroll in the local supermarket also does wonders. As you walk down the aisles of food and more food, ideas and inspiration will start popping up. Our brains work best when they're at their most relaxed.
The best advice I can give regarding sales and marketing is to remember why you got into the "customer business" in the first place. Why did you decide to become an entrepreneur or get into sales? Is it because there was something about the product or service you're selling that you are passionate about? Tap into your passion and you will find your skills; marketing, sales or otherwise. Jason Howell Author, "America, Still the Land of Opportunity.." http://www.jasonhowell.com/solutions/products-page
More important than getting out of the office is getting your boss out of the office. I've been able to convince more executives of what the customer really wants or needs by taking them with me - not just reporting on what customers said after I went out.
Keith, this has been an excellent post. The comments have given me so great ideas for improving contacts with my readers. Thanks.
My best advice you can apply right away is: Never Eat Alone! Open up your Outlook or other appointment record system. How many people are you scheduled to connect with for lunch over the next 30 days? Are you having trouble getting in to see a key business prospect? Email them and ask if they can recommend a nice coffee / snack place close to their office for an important meeting you are expecting to have shortly. When they respond (most will because people love to help!), reply back with a "thank you" and then let them know they are the "important meeting" and you would like to buy them a cup of coffee at " 3pm tomorrow" (or another suitable time you can be in their area).
People get out all the time when traveling - and then sit isolated on a plane for hours while some of the most interesting people in the world might be right next to them. Taking time to learn what people are doing can lead to lots of great new connections and ideas. On my last flight, I sat next to the owner of a concrete coompany who is paving the way for advanced uses of GPS-guided machines that automatically create roads precisely following plans to create perfect grades and pathways. I learned about the leading players, the technology, the competition, the challenges, and realized that this can apply to many other fields. On the other side of me was a surgeon working for a testing firm that evaluated surgical implants. I learned about their business and the challenges, again with exciting opportunities to understand emerging busiiness models and medical trends. I don't know if that knowledge and those connections will ever lead to anything, but I'm so glad I didn't just put on earbugs and bury myself in introspection during that flight. I love the idea of meeting in grocery stores or other venues. Even if the setting is not directly related to the topic, getting out and working with others under new sets of stimuli could become the secret sauce for some projects.
Excellent comments. Thanks for the gentle push.
I look for "thinking of you" articles... I flip through my contacts list (customers, prospects, partners, suppliers, etc). I often get flashed of something about names that jump out at me (faces, images, ideas, goals, challenges, connections). Then I hit a site I like for a broad swath of ideas and aggregators (HBR, Stanford, here, Gallup, others). I almost always see something that connects (seamingly) at random to send to someone without wanting something in return. Example, from today - I saw the Top 10 ideas for 2010 HBR is putting out. I liked the one on motivation (ee's are more motivated by project progress than anything else, $$, prestige, etc) which made me think of a Chief HR Officer I haven't touched in a while. Quick note... "I read this and was thinking about you, thought you would get a kick out of it. Hope you are well!" Time start to finish, 30 minutes maybe? drip, drip, drip,
Keith, So true and so unharvested. Seems the simplest and most effective of things elude us be they for sales and marketing or teaching the minds of our kids. If we are transparent and risk what others might think, they might think we are pretty cool for allowing a glimpse inside of ourselves, a piece of our dna so to speak...because after all aren't our fishing expeditions designed to 'capture' in one form or another? I would offer that being vulnerable is not a sign of weakness but a sign of character and even a bit of nobility....and we might find that to be better bait regardless of our focus. If we operate that way ourselves we will most likely attract that in others... some food for thought anyway.
Pick up the phone and make the call. You know, the one you have been putting off...the important one! Then do it again, again, again, again...repeat daily.
Not only does getting outside make you better at sales and marketing - it makes you a better leader and human being. How? It awakens empathy. Sonia already mentioned it but I must mention it again: Undercover Boss was a powerful example of what happens when we "get outside" and it was a profound display of effective leadership not to mention love. It sure beats hands down any 360 or OD assessment O'Donnell could have invested in. Being on the frontlines -undercover-with his staff showed him how his "policies" were literally playing out. His willingness to learn from them and connect with their day to day experience opened his eyes wide. Outside our office is the whole world - and it's easy to disconnect from it considering what we must accomplish in a week. However if we lose this connection then we lose the point of what we are doing the hard work for. We all need to remember, as Kahlil Gibran says that, "Work is love made visible."
Any comment by Kahlil Gibran is worth heeding.
Great advice, Keith, and a worthy add-on to Tom Peter's old "Management By Wandering Around (MBWA)" concept from "In Search Of Excellence". Following on what some others have noted, last summer I backed into an effective sales strategy with several existing clients. With the bottom having dropped out of the "soft skills" training market, especially at the giant companies where I do most of my business, I found myself with more than enough time to contemplate and re-tool. One afternoon, I sent an email to each of about 35 contacts that have bought from me in the past, inviting them to join me in a "one-on-one mini-focus group" where we would engage in the kind of discussion that Jon Berghoff and Andy Mowrer so nicely described in their comments above. Lo and behold, I got a 100% positive response, and then set about conducting 35 mini-focus group sessions. I recorded each meeting on a digital recorder for later transcription. Conversations ranged from, "Dean, don't even bother wasting your time calling on us, at least for the next 6 months," to, "Dean, your products are precisely what this company needs today, and here is what you need to do to position them, and here is who you need to talk to." Needless to say, this was an incredibly good use of my time during a terribly slack period of time. And I'm happy to say that it has already resulted in 2010 revenue! Good selling to you all! dmbecker@adaptivlearning.com
Never eat alone!
Does anybody watched on Sunday the Undercover Boss TV Show? what a great show! the founder of the Waste Management was definitely 'got outside' and what happened? he learned things that any of the management leaders or he knew about it. What a great example for all of us? We have sometimes coaches, advisors who can give us good and expensive advices but sometimes their advice is not even close of what our clients want. Asking the Right questions and be Honest with your clients it's for me one of the most important things that I am applying in my relationship with them. sonia@soniathomas.com
There's been a growing interest / focus on this, particularly in the start-up world. Steve Blank, the father of this idea, calls it "customer development". If you're interested, he writes at length about it here: http://steveblank.com/category/customer-development/. Kind Regards, Jonathan Hilley
thnks i'll check this out.
Unfortunately not true: "Every single person out there is getting a paycheck from someone out there in the world." yet that only makes his advice all the more valuable, Relatedly read Nudge, Sway, Drive and Switch,
I always recommend following up with your existing customer base. Quotes are an extremely powerful tool in marketing your services or product and if you've provided value to a customer, there's nothing like getting an authentic quote from that person to promote your brand. The more folks who know that person, the better. If they love your work, they also my be willing to tweet about you or add you to their facebook updates. Also, following up with your customer makes them feel appreciated and a member of your tribe. In my opinion, marketing is all about the cultivation of tribes.
this is so right. be kind to your tribe. Seth Godin has always given me (and all of us) that advice. it seems like a no-brainer from 10K feet but following through on it takes real attention and care.
Internet/online-social/email marketing is overrated. People are designed with a longing/need for face-to-face human interaction, whether in business or in personal life. That is why musicians who perform live for a real audience on a consistent basis outsell and outlast those who don't (take a lesson from U2, The Stones, Rush, etc). Apply this to your business, whatever it is, and you will thrive. We buy from people we know and like and have consistent interaction with. Period.
#1) Paramount is to uncover people's PAIN... then draft a plan to fix it. It is the problem solver, the solution giver... the good listener - that quickly becomes the Trusted Advisor. #2) Just ask questions... follow the answers with, "Tell me more... can you elaborate..." Then transition to "What do you like/dislike about ____" to uncover the PAIN. When you uncover a PAIN point (that you know you can fix), ask "How does that make you feel when ____". Always show empathy to reinforce and validate their "emotion". Then follow with an up-front contracting style question, "If I could show you how to relieve the PAIN of ____, would you be willing to enter into a solution based discussion with me/my company. VALUE driven sales is about fixing people's PAIN. If you question and probe properly and there is still no PAIN - you are more than likely never going to get the sale anyway - so move on and probe for PAIN somewhere else! Enjoy the day!
This is a great script. what better way to be in service of others but to cure what ails them. the key is to be genuine and thorough in finding out what they need, not assuming you know upfront and trying to convince them of it.
It's all about the pain! It feels so good to be a problem-solver! But there must be a problem! Or it's.....NEXT!
Getting out in the world is very important. I do a lot of writing in coffee shops. Just sitting there listening to people of all ages, professions, education levels, and political persuasions helps me understand them better.
Wow, where to start!?! I'm getting at least as much from the comments as from the article its self. I particularly liked the comments of Nancy Fox. I'm an old guy. My children aren't much younger than you, and most likely, most of those making comments. By getting out where others are doing their thing, and helping with youth and children's ministries, I stay in touch with what is going on. Sometimes, I actually find this one legged ol' fat man is ahead of the curve! Imagine the flack I got, in the early 80's, taking my telemarketing team out for long luncheons, and business meetings, in unique locations. They always returned knowing they were appreciated, making a difference, and glowing with new ideas or approaches. Since most hire me to set up or repair their sales, I may have a unique problem. Most are entrepenuers, and like all of us, think they are, "normal." It is very hard for them to understand that their average prospect doesn't think like them. If they were normal, everyone would own their own business and be a significant risk taker. On the rare occassion I can get them to understand, a most amazing light seems to eminate from their face. Currently unemployed (I prefer to think of it as taking a hiatus), I've been examining the Avon model. Why, when other, "door to door" businesses are failing, does Avon continue to thrive? I believe your article, with several of these comments, explains. These independant representatives aren't often trying to sell. They are visiting their friends and neighbors. They genuinely care, and let's face it, one size does not fit all when it comes to any of their products. Unlike their many pretenders, they are offering solutions, specific to the individual, in the privacy of their own home! Okay, so the above probably suggests it's time to get back to work and stop annoying my wife's friends (after 30 years, my wife is above being annoyed). So, if anyone wants to know how best to advertise for free, look me up.
More than getting outside, it's getting inside somewhere else (i.e. when you can see and hear the customer.) When I managed marketing teams at Disney and Hilton, I would plan meetings in theme parks, hotel lobbies, and best of all...the mall. You can learn a lot about consumer behaviors when counting the brands on shopping bags going out the door.
Keith, great reminder that creativity can be proactively ignited. It's not a "talent" that some people just have, it can be manufactured. a few quick thoughts on improving sales or marketing strategy, that i'm working on today for a client, i'll consider this my mental warmup: 1. Survey our customers, and make sure there aren't any costly assumptions about 1. if the customers are happy 2. why they are happy 3. why they bought 4. do they still remember what's great about the service or product they bought 5. why they will or won't refer 6. what problem do they have that's still not being solved 2. Ask the question, "how can i add more value to my current offering, or at least repackage my current offering so that more value is perceived?" This is really two different questions, but the end result, for the customer, is the same. More value. 3. Read "Never Eat Alone". Okay okay okay, i'm pandering. But actually, i'm not. Sometimes the best sales move is to simply connect with your key players in your network, to find out what is relevant for them right now, what they need, how you can help them. Cheers, JB
Do your research. Know your customer. Whether your customer is an individual or an entire market, you need to know them well enough that you have an educated guess as to what they ate for breakfast that morning.
One thing? Smove. Of course, to smove is to Smile & Move (2 things)... which is made up of 9 points, so I'm cheating a bit. A 3-minute video version is here... http://www.SmileAndMove.com/changeit
Sam- I enjoyed your 3-minute video. Smove. So very smooth; what a great word and a great concept. Thanks for sharing it. -Rob 817-372-4618
Keith, Great post. It bears repeating that you have to be open to new opportunities while you're out in public and avoid viewing your "walking-around" as the way to reinforce your misperceptions. I've found that some of my best ideas for new business came from an errand on my "honey-do" list. In terms of other ways to improve your sales and marketing skills, it's about asking questions. Make them open-ended (How? Why?). Hypothesize (If we did this, what would happen?). Ask for more details when someone tells you something. And answer one question with another question (Yes, we do it that way. Why do you ask?). The ability to probe is a skill I was taught by Ron Shapiro and Mark Jankowski, who have written some terrific negotiations books (e.g., The Power of Nice). Focusing on asking questions changed the way I approached my job. Peter Osborne Bulldog Simplicity blog: www.posborne1.wordpress.com
Keith, I know it sounds basic, but the single most important thing we can do to improve our sales efforts is to LISTEN. Each customer is a unique individiual who will require a specific solution to meet their needs. We cannot determine their need or provide the appropriate solution if we don't ask open ended questions and take the time to really listen. Too often we find ourselves lumping our customers together and blurting out the standard features and benefits which at the end of the day just becomes "white noise" to the customer since we never took the time to treat them as an individual and listen to their needs. Make it a point to find out one new thing about your customers today and I promise it will lead to more sales tomorrow. Thanks and have a great day! Jim
Great post! It's amazing how different people see things from a different perspective. A friend was managing a conveinience store and I asked him why his case soda price was so high. He explained that they were losing money selling cases when compaired with selling single cans, and the customer was actualy getting a better deal buying cases from him, even though the price was higher than shopping elsewhere. You can guess where his customers shopped. He could have kept those customers by seeing it from their perspective instead of his own. Another friend said it this way " The greatest hindrance to knowing the truth, is thinking you already have it". Jon
Along these lines Keith, I used to take the design and marketing teams I led back then (these were bra designers and marketers!) to field trip days. We'd go see an exhibit in a museum, try a new restaurant, visit a new store totally unrelated to our business. We'd bond, discuss what we'd seen or eaten, and just let new ideas and conversation flow. President of my company didn't understand why we'd be taking half a day to see things unrelated to the business. Your innovative juices flow in non-linear ways. If only more leaders would see the value of giving employees ways to expand their thinking, creativity, and motivation. Nancy Fox www.thebusinessfox.com
My best advice for people is to have a flight plan and be observant. Once early in my career a prospect asked me at a later date what the quote was behind his desk. I didn't remember and it cost me a deal. Since then I always take note of how the person decorates, what types of trophies are on the wall etc. And I am surprised by how many people are not prepared when they come to meet me for the first time. Jenn
Keith! I like this. I really like this. Of course it makes total sense for a Target exec to meet people in a Target outlet, but I think it is downright insightful for him to recognise what a good idea that is. I could think of a load of better places to meet customers when I think of it and I reckon you've put me onto something awesome here. Thanks! Colin, South Africa

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